Interviewing is a skill, and not an easy one to master. There’s something new to learn every time you sit down across a desk, share a cup of coffee or connect across an ocean via FaceTime or Skype for an interview.

In my 13 years in TV news, I have had the opportunity to interview thousands of people from all walks of life—politicians, celebrities, criminals, grieving families, heroic first responders—and no two interviews were the same. Even so, there are methods, models, techniques and tips that can be applied to bring out the best, or, in some cases, to (necessarily) discover the worst, in people.

Executive search involves interviewing a different set of people than TV news, of course; and the individuals we interview are generally happy to speak with us, seeing us as the gatekeepers to their next career move. But we still need that focus: bring out the best; weed out the worst.

Here are a few interview techniques I’ve perfected as a journalist:

1. Don’t be afraid to ask offbeat questions and catch your interviewee off guard.

Everyone comes to an interview with a script, rehearsed answers, and a determination to make the interview follow the direction that best suits them. Get them off script.

In my previous life, celebrities were the worst offenders. Having conducted hundreds of red-carpet interviews, every actor or director comes with a handful of sound bites that they’ve been given by their handlers. So instead of starting off with, “Tell me about your role” or “how difficult is it to transform into that kind of monster?” I would often ask something they weren’t expecting driven by the headlines of the day: “Is the #metoo movement changing Hollywood quickly enough?” or “Where do you stand on equal pay?”

In executive search, that translates to questions, such as “What has been the hardest time in your career?” or “What is a lesson you’ve learned in the past year?” I had one client who asked candidates how much sleep they got or the last book they had read.

I had a client who asked candidates how much sleep they got or the last book they had read.

By starting with something completely out of the blue you can shock your interviewee out of the script they have in their minds. Don’t be afraid to throw them off.

2. Be empathetic; realize that your subject is often under stress.

While some people need to be challenged, others need to be drawn out. As a journalist, I would invest more time with families who just lost someone to a terrible accident or crime, or families who’d lost everything in a wildfire or hurricane.

Some candidates also have great potential, but need more time to calm their nerves and reveal their best selves. As an interviewer, it is our job to accurately assess a candidate, even if that requires patience and some extra time.

3. Make it a conversation, not an interrogation.

Early in my news career, I covered the bust of a large marijuana-growing operation in a small town in Arkansas. We knew that the grower had been released on bail, and I wanted to see if we could get him to explain his side of the story. After knocking on dozens of doors in the neighborhood, we found our subject. We approached him conversationally and—to our utter surprise—he invited us to the back yard to show us where the police had been. It was quite the operation: The entire backyard was equipped with rows and rows of planters and hydroponic systems; the scent of marijuana was still in the air. I asked him what he had been growing, and he emphatically replied, “I thought they were tomato plants!” It made for some of the most entertaining TV I have ever produced.

I asked him what he had been growing, and he emphatically replied, “I thought they were tomato plants!”

Had I adopted the more aggressive approach, chasing this man into his home with a camera and a microphone, he would have slammed the door, and we never would have had that exchange (which later helped the police in their investigation).

In the interview process, whether it’s with an alleged illegal drug dealer or an executive, engaging your candidate in conversation and making them feel comfortable from the beginning is crucial. The more at ease your candidate is—even if they’re lying, as I believe my ‘tomato plant’ interviewee was—the more authentic the individual is going to be.

4. Short and to-the-Point.

Long-winded questions, with sub-clauses that meander this way and that, and pose one question while over-riding it with another slightly tangential point (think last week’s Congressional hearing with special counsel Robert Mueller), while trying to circle back to the original thought, leaves everyone confused and muddled. Just ask the question. One at a time.

5. Not everyone wants to tell the truth. We have to find it.

Have you ever met a politician who wanted to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Neither have I. As a TV reporter, I couldn’t call any of the countless politicians I interviewed—Republican or Democrat—a liar on-air. But it was my duty to push them as much as I could, to put them on the spot, to call them out in a polite and probing way. It’s a balance of rephrasing the question and, if the subject tries to divert attention, re-directing the focus back to the initial point (even saying outright ‘that’s not the question I asked’ if necessary).

We all know candidates interviewing for high-level positions sometimes shade the truth, pad a résumé, highlight their strengths while trying to bury their weaknesses, demur over gaps in their resumes, etc. Everyone is a politician, to some extent, in an interview, selling themselves above all else. It’s our job to probe; it’s our job to get to the true character behind the facade.

6. Trust your intuition.

All good reporters have a sixth sense that tells them when something is amiss in a story. Good recruiters are no different. If an answer does not ‘feel correct’, follow your instincts and probe a little more.

From time to time, we interview candidates who have had a short stint in a position. Did the candidate leave because it was an uneasy fit or a bad experience, or was the company in financial trouble?

I follow up with questions, such as ‘What would your manager say about you, given your short tenure?’

My colleague Jane Howze, Managing Director at The Alexander Group, says, “I usually have a sixth sense about whether the person was asked to leave, or whether he or she left on their own accord. I follow up with questions, such as ‘What would your manager say about you, given your short tenure?’”

Her advice? “Follow your gut.”

Many companies today have introduced behavioral interviewing processes where the interviewer asks specific questions that test how a candidate behaves in a certain situation. In our opinion, this process, while beneficial, can rob the interviewer of the opportunity to pop a surprise question (as in tip #1 above) or to rely on the intuition that steers questions in a more relevant way.

Instead, the next time you interview, think like a journalist, and get the full story.

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An executive search for an internal candidate happens during the executive recruitment process when the client recommends an employee of the company for the position. This recommendation is often because the client wants to conduct a broad search and believes that the internal candidate is good but wants to cover the marketplace. Sometimes, the client questions whether the internal candidate is appropriate and wants the assessment of the search firm.

Why the Internal Candidate Experience is Important

A few years ago, The Alexander Group’s Managing Director, John C. Lamar, received an email from an internal candidate we’d interviewed for a client:

“John, you and I met over a year ago during the course of my firm’s Chief Financial Officer search, where I was the internal candidate. While I was not chosen for the position, you communicated often during the course of the search and told me that, regardless of whether I was selected, I was a valuable asset. When I was not selected, you also told me that it would clearly become evident why someone else was chosen. You were spot-on in your assessment. I have learned so much from [the successful candidate] because of her many years in our industry … Thank you for your professionalism.”

All of us in the search business have conducted this type of search, where the talent assessment for leadership roles involves unique dynamics and delicate considerations. An executive search for an internal candidate requires a structured, unbiased approach to evaluating their qualifications against external contenders. This ensures the internal candidate is measured objectively, promoting fairness and transparency throughout the search. 

Such searches are designed to assess skill alignment with the role and to consider the candidate’s growth potential and fit within the company’s evolving culture and strategic objectives. 

By treating internal candidates with the same rigor as external applicants, an executive search firm can help clients secure the best possible talent for critical leadership roles while reinforcing the internal candidate’s value to the organization—whether or not they’re ultimately selected.

Applying Executive Hiring Best Practices to Internal Candidate Searches

Including an internal candidate in the executive search process has its benefits. The company and the employee can strengthen the relationship if the internal candidate is respected and genuinely feels assessed fairly for the open role. 

However, if this process is handled indelicately, the employee can feel left out in the cold, which does not benefit the parties involved. Here is what two executives have said about their experience as an internal candidate:

A Bank President’s Disappointing Experience as an Internal Candidate

Bob, the internal candidate, commented that his inclusion as an internal candidate seemed like an afterthought. The search firm (not The Alexander Group) never provided him with a position description and did not communicate. 

“While the search firm spent 90 minutes interviewing me, they had not studied my resume to determine whether or not I would be a fit with the position. It was clear they had made their mind up before the process started. The first question I was asked was ‘Why did you choose Notre Dame for college?’ This is not a question you ask a 57-year-old man.” 

He never heard from the search firm again, even after an external candidate was selected for the position. Bob believes neither the holding company nor the search firm treated him well.

Fortune 50 Compliance VP’s Positive Internal Candidate Experience

Paula learned about the internal opportunity directly from the hiring manager. The hiring manager responded back very positively that he would be happy to have her added to the candidate slate and that she would be contacted by the search firm handling the search. Paula was interviewed in person by the search firm and was pleased with the time spent to assess her potential candidacy. She applauded the search firm’s efforts to understand the newly created role within the company. 

While Paula was not selected for the role, she remains extremely supportive of the hiring manager and believes that being included in the interview process has only improved her visibility in the company for other positions.

The Alexander Group prioritizes building enduring relationships with both clients and candidates. Paula experienced a process similar to ours, where clear communication and thorough assessment ensure the internal candidate feels valued and respected throughout the executive search. This approach strengthens the bond between the company and its employees and enhances the overall success of our executive search for an internal candidate.

Internal vs. External Executive Candidates

There are several things that an executive search firm can do to improve the internal candidate’s experience:

• Communicate often and clearly, and do not assume that the client will communicate the progress and process of the search with the candidate;
• Submit internal candidates to the same process as external candidates (i.e., if you are traveling to see external candidates, you should travel to see internal candidates);
• Spend time objectively assessing the internal candidate’s resume in line with the position and communicate to them that you are looking for the best candidate—internal or external; and
• Make the internal candidate feel “special” to be selected as an internal candidate and treat them accordingly.

We believe an internal candidate who has gone through a rigorous, unbiased interview process—and is selected—will enter the role with confidence that they are, indeed, the most qualified person for the position. If they don’t get the role, then they know they played on a level playing field and, from a career development perspective, will be even more prepared for the next opportunity.

At The Alexander Group, we are paid for the process, not the person. If the client recommends an internal candidate, she or he is just as much our candidate as any external talent we identify. Ignore the internal candidate, and you run the risk of missing out on a great talent, and possibly, a future client.Ensure your executive search process reflects the highest standards of fairness and professionalism. Contact The Alexander Group to discuss how we can help you identify and assess top talent within and beyond your organization.

Belgian Waffles for Breakfast?

I typically travel solo, but observing a lawyer with a client at the airport last week made me realize there should be an etiquette guide for business travel with your manager or a client. Though I’ve written Road Warrior blogs, I’m certainly no Ms. Manners of the road, but the following seems obvious.

The primary rule is to adapt your behavior to that of your manager or client. Do not be high-maintenance. This can play out in several specific ways, as indicated below:

1) Luggage.

If you’re only going on a two-day business trip, ditch the steamer trunk. Eliminate any thoughts of checking luggage; it is rude and inconsiderate for others to wait a half hour for your 50-pound roller bag to come off the luggage carousel.

A corollary to this rule is not to bring so many clothes that your client/manager thinks that you are auditioning for the next season of “The Bachelor” or “The Bachelorette.” This is, after all, a business trip.

2) Meals.

While traveling with others, you may not control what you eat, when you eat, or if you eat at all. Several years ago, I was traveling with a young associate. As I sat in our rental car in the 120-degree Phoenix heat, motor idling, my colleague was busy inside eating pecan waffles. Exasperated, I went in looking for her and she responded, “I always have to have a big breakfast.” That was the last time we traveled together.

Similarly, if your companion orders a Diet Coke for dinner, don’t ask for the wine list. If your client/manager orders wine, permit yourself a glass of wine, but do not make a big deal of tasting several wines, sending them back, or behave in any way that calls attention to yourself. Your goal is to blend in and to be low-maintenance.

3) Be organized.

Your travel companion should not have to deal with you forgetting the location of your credit card, car key, boarding pass, or parking ticket. I remember traveling with my business partner (who will be furious at me for recounting this story), who tends to be a little absent-minded. We had a meeting at 9 a.m., and at 8:55 a.m., she called in a panic, and I had to go to her room to help her find the keys to our rental car, which she had somehow misplaced in the depths of her suitcase. Really, you don’t want your business partner going through your suitcase looking for lost car keys.

4) Be punctual.

If your client/manager likes to get to the airport two hours early for a shoeshine or a visit to the United Club, accommodate him or her. Give up your habit of streaking down the gangway as the plane doors are closing, which will only cause anxiety for your travel companion. I have seen several occasions where a traveler in a group did not make the flight. Believe me, it did not make a good impression.

5) Keep your personal life separate.

Limit calls home to times that you are in your room. Do not call the family while en route to the next meeting in the rental car or taxi with your boss/client. Your client/manager doesn’t want to hear that Fido had yet another accident in the family room or worse yet, that you and your spouse are fighting about where to go for the holidays.

6) Be prepared.

Do your homework on where you are going and any logistical challenges. Check the weather forecast of your destination and note if a jacket or umbrella is required. Don’t assume I packed a golf umbrella to cover both of us.

7) Cash is King.

The corollary to number six is nothing spends better than cash. You never can tell when an emergency will arise or credit cards aren’t accepted and you want to be the person with the solution, not the problem and there’s nothing that solves a problem like cash.

Have I left anything out? If so, shoot me a line.

The role of the law firm CMO has undergone a remarkable transformation over the past two decades. Once a position focused on basic promotional activities, it has evolved into a strategic leadership role driving firm growth, client engagement, and innovation. Today’s law firm CMOs are at the forefront of integrating technology, data analytics, and law firm internet marketing strategies to help firms stay competitive in an ever-changing legal landscape.

Law Firm Marketing Officers: Then and Now

In 2016, law firms were navigating a significant period of change, becoming increasingly complex global organizations. They grew through internal expansion and acquisitions, mirroring trends in broader American business. Clients had also evolved; they could no longer be counted on to remain with a law firm for generations. Legal industry marketing, once considered undignified and restricted by professional conduct rules, had already become a critical function—a necessity for firms aiming to survive in a competitive landscape.

Fast forward to 2024, and these dynamics have only accelerated. The competition for corporate clients remains fierce, underpinned by advanced marketing technologies like predictive analytics, AI-driven tools, and digital-first strategies. Firms have shifted from relying on traditional approaches to marketing for law firm success to adopting multi-channel law firm marketing strategies. 

These strategies align with the latest chief marketing officer trends, leveraging technology to deliver personalized client experiences at scale. This transformation is reflected in the evolving role of law firm CMOs. One retired Am Law 100 CMO recalled joining his firm in 1990 when the partners were just beginning to ask what the “World Wide Web” was and whether it had any relevance to their work. Back then, the role was primarily administrative, focused on tasks like creating brochures, operating collating machines, and even preparing seating charts for events. The CMO described how these responsibilities, though necessary, offered little in terms of strategic impact.

Today, that world feels like a distant memory. The responsibilities of CMOs in 2024 have evolved beyond recognition. They are now expected to lead data-driven decision-making, integrate advanced technologies, and play a direct role in shaping firm-wide business strategies. What was once an administrative function has become a cornerstone of law firm competitiveness in the modern era, with CMOs positioned as strategic leaders at the heart of client engagement and innovation.

The Strategic Role of Business Development in Law Firm Marketing in 2024

The role of the law firm CMO has evolved dramatically, becoming increasingly vital as firms navigate a fast-paced, globalized market. In 2024, the CMO is not only a strategic partner in defining and communicating the firm’s brand but also a key driver of innovation, client experience, and firm-wide growth. These leaders oversee complex, data-driven marketing strategies while ensuring alignment with business development goals. CMOs are tasked with recruiting, retaining, and developing cohesive, high-performing teams, often distributed across multiple locations and time zones.

Modern law firm CMOs are also expected to play a direct role in securing and expanding client relationships. Using advanced tools like client relationship management (CRM) platforms, predictive analytics, and artificial intelligence, they deliver personalized, data-informed approaches that build trust and deepen client engagement. This shift reflects the industry’s demand for CMOs who can translate data insights into actionable strategies, advancing business development in law firms to drive outcomes.

Additionally, the career trajectory for law firm CMOs has expanded. While some still move into COO or Executive Director roles, many now transition into positions like Chief Strategy Officer, Chief Client Experience Officer, or even CEO roles within related industries. These career paths highlight the growing influence and versatility of CMOs as strategic leaders in law firms and beyond.

Law Firm CMO Compensation in 2024

As the role of the law firm CMO has expanded into a cornerstone of strategic leadership, compensation trends reflect this growing importance. In 2024, CMOs in law firms command competitive salaries that rival those of their counterparts in other professional services industries. On average, law firm CMO salaries range from $250,000 to $500,000 annually, with additional bonuses and incentives often tied to firm performance, business development milestones, or client retention metrics.

Factors influencing compensation include the size of the firm, geographic location, and the complexity of the CMO’s responsibilities. For example, CMOs involved in global law firm marketing with extensive business development functions or technology-driven strategies tend to be on the higher end of the salary spectrum. Additionally, firms increasingly offer comprehensive benefits packages, including equity options, profit-sharing opportunities, and robust professional development programs, to attract and retain top marketing talent.

Beyond base salaries, CMOs often receive additional compensation in the form of signing bonuses, long-term incentive plans, and performance-based bonuses, which can significantly increase their overall earnings. This reflects the critical role CMOs play in driving firm growth and adapting to an ever-changing legal landscape.

As firms continue to prioritize innovation and client engagement, law firm CMO compensation is expected to remain competitive, ensuring that the role attracts dynamic, forward-thinking leaders capable of meeting the demands of the modern legal industry.

Law Firm Marketing and Business Development Continues to Evolve

The role of law firm marketing leaders has continued to evolve, necessitating a broader and more sophisticated skill set. Firms, from global legal law firms to those focusing on small law firm marketing, are increasingly recruiting professionals from diverse industries, including technology, consulting, and financial services, to infuse innovative strategies and perspectives. This trend reflects a commitment to adopting best practices from sectors that have long embraced data-driven marketing and client engagement.

Historically, law firms began this diversification by hiring professionals from public accounting and consulting firms, which had established global brands ahead of the legal industry. Some marketing leaders transitioned from legal practice, seeking roles that better aligned with their talents. Notably, in the early 1990s, Howrey & Simon appointed Mary K Young, a consumer products marketing manager, to lead its global marketing efforts, signaling a shift towards valuing diverse marketing expertise.

By 2016, The Alexander Group’s research indicated that approximately 25% of Am Law 100 firms had hired CMOs from outside the legal industry. This trend has accelerated, with recent external hires including executives from leading firms in various sectors. The expansion of CMO responsibilities to encompass business development is evident in titles such as Chief Business Officer, Chief Strategy Officer, and Chief Client Services Officer. Among the Am Law 100 firms that have appointed new CMOs in the past three years, a significant number have incorporated “business development” into the title, underscoring the integrated approach to marketing and client relationship management.

This progression highlights the legal industry’s recognition of the need for marketing leadership in law firms. It emphasizes crafting comprehensive law firm marketing plans capable of driving growth and innovation in a competitive landscape.

The Evolution of Law Firm Marketing Leadership: Trends from 2016 to 2024

In 2016, law firm marketing functions were undergoing rapid evolution, with several notable trends beginning to shape the industry. One significant development at the time was the integration of business development professionals into global practice groups. These professionals worked closely with practice management teams to create tailored strategies that aligned with both client needs and market conditions. Some firms even began consolidating oversight of business development and practice management functions under a single leader, offering career-broadening opportunities for professionals in both fields.

Fast forward to 2024, and these trends have matured and expanded. Today, business development is no longer just embedded in practice groups; it is deeply integrated into firm-wide operations. CMOs and their teams are leveraging cutting-edge tools like artificial intelligence, predictive analytics, and client journey mapping to create data-driven strategies that address market shifts in real-time. The roles of marketing, business development, and practice management have blurred, with some firms appointing Chief Growth Officers or Chief Strategy Officers to oversee these interconnected functions.

Additionally, the rise of digital transformation has redefined the skills required of law firm marketing leaders. In 2024, future-ready CMOs must be adept in areas like digital marketing, CRM system optimization, and global client experience management. Firms are also expanding their functions for marketing a law firm to include specialists in data science, content strategy, and even ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) communications, reflecting the broader trends influencing the legal industry’s direction.

As the legal market grows increasingly competitive and globalized, the role of law firm marketing executives will continue to evolve. The next wave of innovation is likely to include even greater reliance on automation, advanced personalization, and AI-powered insights, ensuring that marketing leaders remain central to driving firm growth and client satisfaction.

The Evolving Impact of the Law Firm Chief Marketing Officer

The role of the law firm CMO has transformed into a cornerstone of strategic leadership, driving growth, innovation, and client engagement in an increasingly complex and competitive legal industry. From leveraging advanced technologies and data analytics to integrating business development into firm-wide strategies, CMOs are shaping the future of law firm success. As the demands of the role continue to evolve, law firms are seeking dynamic leaders capable of navigating global challenges while delivering exceptional value to clients.

To learn more about finding or becoming a transformative law firm CMO, contact The Alexander Group today. Our expertise in executive search can help you connect with leaders who will drive your firm’s success.

Over the course of our firm’s 35-year history, we have conducted nearly 800 operational, financial and administrative leadership searches for law firms—large and small, regional and global. During this time, law firms’ top business leadership position has become increasingly more strategic and global.

The Chief Operating Officer (or Executive Director, as the firm may title its top business leader) is responsible for managing the business operations of the firm. Interestingly, we have recruited a Chief Operating Officer for the same client three times in the past three decades. While the position description hasn’t changed significantly, the position requirements have changed dramatically.

With that backdrop, I thought it would be interesting to examine the experience and background of the COOs and Executive Directors of Am Law 100 firms. The results of our inquiry were mostly predictable, with a few surprises thrown in.

Does every law firm have a COO or ED?

Perhaps the biggest surprise is the number of Am Law 100 firms that do not have a Chief Operating Officer or Executive Director. Of the 100 top-grossing law firms, 87 have a COO or Executive Director (this is including current vacancies), with the trend decidedly toward calling the position Chief Operating Officer. Conversely, 13 firms do not have a COO/ED position. The largest firms currently not having the title (if not the role) are global giants Kirkland & Ellis (2,300+ lawyers) and Jones Day (2,500+ lawyers), which have long-time, highly respected veterans Brigitte Wooster and Bonnie Shute, respectively, as firmwide Chief Administrative Officers.

Long tenures are common

Of those in the COO or Executive Director role, 49 have been in their role for at least ten years and 35 have been in their role or at their firm for more than 15 years. Chuck Woodhouse at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, LeeAnn Black at Latham & Watkins, and Mark Langdon at Ballard Spahr win the prize for the longest tenure at 30+ years, though like many in the top role, all three joined their firm in financial roles. Of the Am Law 20, eight COOs and Executive Directors have been in their role or at their firm longer than 15 years. And let’s face it, no one will probably reach Earle Yaffa’s of Skadden Arps tenure. He joined the firm nearly 40 years ago and is retiring as a senior advisor at year end.

But there is turnover

Currently there are five active COO/Executive Director searches of Am Law 100 firms. Usually vacancies occur when long-standing COO/Executive Directors retire, while occasionally a COO/ED moves to a competitor or out of the industry.

The biggest surprise? Attorneys in the position

Almost one-fourth of all Chief Operating Officers or Executive Directors have law degrees. They fall into two categories: One group is comprised of partners in their firm who have been moved to an administrative leadership role. Others have law degrees, but have never practiced at their current firm.

What is the background of today’s COO?

A large number of Am Law 100 executive leaders hail from accounting or consulting firms. Most typically join law firms in a financial role and are promoted into the COO/ED role. There are at least nine COO/Executive Directors from Bain, Boston Consulting Group and McKinsey. Some were in financial/administrative management but others came from the consulting–specifically the strategy consulting practice of their firms.

There are interesting exceptions to the consulting and public accounting firm backgrounds that we see so often. Barnes & Thornburg’s Steven Merkel was formerly Chief of Operations at United States Military Academy at West Point and Mike Caplan at Goodwin Proctor successfully ran legal departments at Goldman Sachs and Marsh & McLennan. In keeping with its Bay Area roots, ten years ago, Morrison & Forrester tapped Pat Cavaney—who ran business operations at HP—for their COO role. At the time, it was seen as an innovative, out-of-the-box hire, but success and a broadening view of the role has changed that.

Future trends

It is an exciting time to be in law firm management. Global expansion, increasing complexity and, of course, compensation are attracting many non-law firm executives to the industry. At one time, law firms were somewhat reluctant to recruit from outside the legal profession, but no more. The success of those who have made the transition—coupled with the recognition that strategy, leadership and administrative talent are transferrable skills—will continue to broaden the talent pool for this role.

WET CIGARS, POLYESTER SUITS AND POINTED-TOE SHOES — EXECUTIVES SHARE THEIR (BEST) WORST INTERVIEW STORIES

At The Alexander Group and Alex & Red, we have collectively conducted thousands (and thousands) of interviews in our three-plus decades in executive search. We’ve seen the good, the bad and the ugly, and we have shared a few of our less impressive interview experiences here—partly as cautionary tale, partly for our readers’ amusement.

This time around, we asked clients, candidates and friends of the firm to share their (best) worst interview stories. Here are the ones that left us shaking our heads, laughing out loud and nodding in empathy. Who doesn’t have a story like these?

The air up there

“As a second-year law student at the University of Chicago, I was going through the law firm interview process for the first time in my life,” shares one legal executive. “I found myself in an interview with a posh and somewhat patronizing partner from an L.A.-based firm. About five minutes into the interview, he asked me whether I was in the top 5 percent of my class. I promptly assured him that I almost certainly did not breathe such rarefied air. He then informed me that his firm’s policy was to only hire students in the top 5 percent of their class.

“Flippantly, I responded, ‘Every firm says that, but the top 5 percent of students can only be spread so thin.’ He assured me that his firm has always managed to fill its needs fishing in such a tiny pond. We then silently stared at each other for what seemed like hours, at which point I thanked him for his time, excused myself, and slunk out of the interview with 20 minutes to go.”

Right on time?

A former trial attorney turned leadership coach recalls this story: “In the days before digital calendars, I showed up for my interview to clerk for a well-known Federal Court Judge only to find that his administrative assistant had written the appointment down for a week later. She was mortified and apologized profusely. I graciously put her at ease and said I’d be happy to come back in a week. She and the judge both felt so bad, they insisted I stay and the hour passed pleasantly with repeated apologies from them and kind demurs by me.

“When I returned home, I double-checked my desk calendar—and realized that I had in fact showed up a week early!”

When HR falls over backwards for you… literally

An executive in the energy industry learned early in his career to keep his ego in check: “I interviewed with Boeing while a student at MIT Sloan (the business school of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology). I walked into the room to find to my great disappointment not a senior corporate executive but a junior HR associate. He leaned back in his chair and fell over backwards on the floor. He then proceeded to ask me some rather basic math questions, which I found insulting. I said I was not interested in any further discussions with him, and I left.” That was wrong, he admits. “I should have kept my ego in check and used the opportunity to impress him with my skills. I never repeated the mistake.”

At the wrong end of a wet cigar

“Years ago,” shares one law firm executive, “I spent a day with a firm in Chicago. I had five good interviews and one awful one—and the awful one was with the Managing Partner. He spent most of the interview pointing the wet end of a cigar at me and was highly agitated. Every time I thought I nailed a question, he just seemed more upset. I tried harder with every question to show him I had what it took to do the job. I tried to connect with him on a personal level. Nothing seemed to work. The cigar kept coming.

“I was hugely relieved when the HR representative arrived to escort me to the next meeting. The managing partner didn’t shake my hand or even say good bye; he just said good luck and turned back to his computer and piles and piles of paper.

“Just like in sports,” he advises, “you can’t let one bad play turn into a string of bad plays. You have to focus, play your game and not get shaken. If you can’t turn it around, you can walk away confident that it isn’t a good fit.”

What’s wrong with you?

An executive seeking a new position, before she landed her current position at JPMorgan Chase, spoke to the head of a contingency search firm. She relayed this conversation: “The consultant opened with, ‘Here’s the problem with you: You don’t make enough money for your level. People are going to think there’s something wrong with you.’

“I looked at the consultant from the contingency firm, knowing full well that this would be the last conversation we had, and said, ‘here’s my concern with you representing me as a candidate: If you can’t present my skills and experience (and tenure) as ‘the deal of the century, even if we all we do is bring her up to market’, then I am not sure we have anything else to talk about.’

“Needless to say, that was the last time I entertained a cold call from that firm.”

You can be too prepared

A legal executive with a multibillion-dollar corporation was interviewing with an international consumer packaged goods company for a Deputy General Counsel position. “I was so convinced that the role was right for me that, at the interview, I became deeply engaged in a conversation with my interviewers about their business issues and the legal risks associated with them. I thought we had engaged in a concrete and practical business discussion. The feedback from the recruiter, however, was that I hadn’t let my interviewers get a word—or question in—edgewise! When I returned for the second round, I was conscious of the number of questions I asked. It was a lesson to me to pay attention to the dynamic of the interview and let the interviewer guide the conversation.”

What are you implying?

An experienced HR consultant recollects one interview with the head of the legal department who also managed the HR function (always a red flag, says this consultant). “He rambled on without focus about the HR team being relatively junior, etc. etc. He then simply stopped speaking. I paused a moment and then asked, ‘Is there a question for me?’ His smug response to me was, ‘It’s implied.’

“I just stared at him and went on to discuss my approach to mentoring. I did not elect to proceed with the ‘process.’”

More best of the worst:

• A successful journalist once applied for a job with Investor’s Business Daily as a writer. The interviewer asked him if he knew what an investment banker was. He misunderstood and replied, “An investment anchor is someone that anchors all the transactions together.” It was a short interview.
• “As he entered the room,” Abby Buchold, Research Associate for The Alexander Group, recalls, “my interviewer yelled ‘just do your job!’ at a maintenance worker in the hall outside his office. I finished the interview, but politely declined to return for round two.”
• One HR consultant discloses an interview with a Vice President of HR, during which “he never turned around to look at me. I talked to the back of his chair the entire hour. He did hire me though—my first HR job!”
• Another executive was asked if she was going to work when she had kids. “I was 25 and single.”
• Our Founder and Managing Director Jane Howze remembers this early interview: “I flew into town to for an interview. Ted, the hiring manager, wasn’t there. His staff was obviously embarrassed; as one person frantically tried to find him, another tried to make up for it by saying ‘this is Ted’s office; here is where Ted has coffee every morning; here is where Ted sits in the law library.’ After two hours, I flew back home, never having met Ted. I learned later that Ted was a bit of a problem.”

Polyester and pointed-toe shoes

“When you grow up in Mount Pleasant, Michigan, your fashion choices are limited,” laughs one investor who began his career in law. “In my first year of law school, I interviewed with the big-three Detroit firms. I show up on interview day in a medium gray polyester suit, peach-colored tie, and $8 Bally loafers with pointed toes—sadly they were navy and not black or brown. On this fateful day, I’m watching my classmates in dark gray and navy wool suits, and I look like my grandpa Hanson at a funeral! I later learned from a classmate of mine who joined that law firm and saw my application, that the interviewing partner had written a big “NO” across the entire page of my evaluation form.

“I was making great grades at law school, defying the odds, but I wasn’t getting any job offers. The next year, I got smart. I went to Sears in Ann Arbor—I still remember standing at the cashier’s counter—and bought a navy-blue pinstriped “King’s Road” suit for $89 and a lawyer-like pair of tasseled loafers. That year, I got the first permanent associate offer out of Dickinson Wright. And the difference was an $89 suit.”

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Questions, we get questions. “What should I do?” “Who should our company hire?” “How should our company structure this position?”

The most important question of the week is not any of the above. Not surprisingly the question is “How can I help my son or daughter who is a recent college graduate get a job?” One recent report indicates that only 22% of college graduates have secured jobs this year. Although this is not our focus, much of the expertise that we use to recruit outstanding executive management is applicable to your son/daughter’s search. The following are a few brief recommendations.

1. The Mind Set. Finding a job is a full time job, especially in these tough times. Merely sending out three or four resumes a day will not suffice. You must act as if you have a job and you have to report to work at 8 am. The job’s location can be at a library or home office. The important thing is that you are not distracted by personal phone calls, household activities or friends. This is why the outplacement firms do well-not because they find you a job-but because they instill a discipline of going to an office where you devote eight hours a day to getting a job.

2. Have a good resume. I am always amazed at how many resumes we get that have spelling errors-and this happens with even with senior executives. Ask friends and your parent’s friends who are in the workforce for feedback on your resume.

3. Ask yourself these important questions: What do you want to do? What companies offer positions that would allow you to do this? What size company do you want to work for? What industry? What geographical location? Remember that many positions are not advertised and are found by word of mouth.

4. Once you have answered these questions, start researching. Look at business periodicals. I find the Houston Business Journal’s Book of Lists is an amazing resource because it lists a number of different types of companies-those that are growing the fastest, pay the most, are the nicest places to work etc. Most other major cities have these books. They are a good investment. Fortune, Forbes, Business Week and local papers also have articles that talk about notable companies.

5. Once you have found companies you would want to work for, write or email them a concise letter along with your resume. In writing the letter, do not address it to “Dear Sir or Madam” or “to head of Human Resources”. Do your research and find out the name of the President of the company, the head of human resources or the department in which you would want to work. Always use a middle initial and his or her exact title. That shows that you are detailed and resourceful.

6. The most important part of any job search for a college graduate or anyone looking for a job for that matter: Network, network, network. Do not be afraid to ask for help. If you went to a certain college, get lists of alums that may be working at companies you are interested in. If you are a member of a certain fraternity or sorority, see if you can find alums at those companies. People are usually happy to do a favor for someone they have something in common with. Use sites like LinkedIn to add your own contacts. The more contacts you have, you are connected to the contacts of those contacts. Remember also to return the favor. It is the law of karma….what you give comes back to you again and again.

7. If you are a parent, do not micromanage the process. Be supportive without asking “how many resumes did you send out today?”

In summary, getting a job is a numbers game. Do you have to make ten calls, or ten thousand calls? Assuming it is 10,000 calls, the faster and more disciplined you are, the faster you will get a job.

June 12, 2009
Follow Up to “The Most Asked Question of the Week”
Wrapping up last week’s blog by answering a few of the many questions we got to help the children of our clients who are graduating from college and who do not have jobs Thanks so much for your response to our first blog.

Hi, thank you very much for the suggestions you posted last week. They were suggestions that I was able to pass along to my daughter. How can my daughter find a headhunter to help her?

Posted by: Paula Finlay June 11, 2009

First, it is helpful to understand how headhunters are paid. They typically earn a percentage of the first year’s salary (usually 20-30%) of the candidate they place. There are not many headhunters that will find a new college graduate a job because the fee would be so low. As one of our bloggers mentioned in an earlier post, graduating engineers can sometimes find a headhunter to help them. But aside from that, I’m not a big fan of using headhunters to find you a job. I think it builds character when someone can go out and determine who they want to work for and try to get an introduction. Secondly, many corporations simply cannot afford to pay fees these days and given the huge number of people competing for the same jobs, they don’t have to. Thirdly, if you don’t know the headhunter well, you really don’t know how he or she is regarded by some companies. Better to represent yourself.

How much should I be willing to help my college graduate in his job search?

Posted by: Matt Conroy, June 11, 2009

Parents can help by looking at a resume and offering suggestions, if asked. In this economy, if the parent has contacts that will open doors, he or she should use them. Just don’t fall into the trap of being responsible for all of your child’s job leads. People who really do the work to find exciting companies that are hiring, get interviews and eventually jobs, will build a sense of self esteem that is important as one enters the business world. If your child does meet with your professional friends, make sure he or she writes thank you notes.

Loved reading your ideas last week but my son wants to know what else he can do.

Posted by: John Hurwitz, June 11, 2009

1. The government is spending a lot of money now. Search the internet to see if there are entry level jobs there.

2. Take some courses this summer at a local college to beef up your resume. For example, accounting is always good, in addition to marketing and computer science.

3. There are companies in remote parts of the country that are hiring, if you have any wanderlust, apply to them. One that comes to mind is Wal-Mart. Now Bentonville, Arkansas may not satisfy your need for wanderlust, but they are hiring. Some of the large credit card companies have operations in South Dakota.

4. Research the type of company you want to work for…forget saying “I just have to get a job”.

5. While you have the time, dare to dream about what would be the perfect company. Go to the library and research. Which are the best companies in Houston, Texas, and the US to work for? Do those companies resonate with you? If so, see if you have contacts there through alums, parents etc.

6. Volunteer a few hours a week. It will make you realize how lucky you are, allow you to meet new people, and provide a beneficial diversion to your job search challenges.

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In my 35 years of recruiting, I can’t remember a happy ending to a case where an individual resigned and then accepted a counter offer to stay at his or her current employer. Why is that? Counter offers usually don’t address the underlying reasons why people want to leave their current positions.

Individuals change jobs for a variety of reasons. Their current role may lack intellectual stimulation, career development or progression opportunities. He or she may lack a cultural fit with the manager or organization. Or the executive may be tired of a long commute or an intense travel schedule and want a better work-life balance. Compensation is usually the last reason people leave their current positions or not even a factor at all.

Compensation is usually the last reason people leave their current positions or not even a factor at all.

Ironically, counter offers are almost always only about money. Companies may match or even go beyond the new offer to try to convince the person to stay. However, most other “promises” to address the driving force behind the decision to leave are simply “false promises,” and the reasons the employee had for searching for new employment in the first place do not go away.

If the reason was cultural fit, the company will rarely change its organizational structure or culture for one person. Even if management sincerely wanted to, effecting organizational change is a challenge that takes a great deal of time and effort. If the reason was lack of intellectual stimulation or professional development opportunities, the company would have promoted the person before he or she resigned and on its own terms.

According to one 2018 survey, 58 percent of managers make counteroffers to retain employees who receive job offers from other employers. How long do employees who accept a counter offer stay with the company? “Less than two years,” was the average response, according to the same survey. Counter offers are nothing more than a quick fix—a band-aid that gives a company time to assess the situation and determine the best action to take. Ultimately, the end result is often the same: the person is replaced or leaves.

Counter offers are nothing more than a quick fix—a band-aid that gives a company time to assess the situation and determine the best action to take.

If you are the recipient of a counter offer, be aware and follow your gut. If your instinct is to leave for another opportunity, stick to your decision and go. Be excited to look ahead. Of course, resign with grace and always keep the door open, as we’ve written about before. Sideline any objections with a clear and confident explanation that covers where, when and why you are leaving. Once you make the announcement, you are basically past tense in the eyes of the organization, but you will always be remembered for how you left. Keep all bridges intact. Times have changed over the years; and it is now acceptable to return to a former employer in a more senior role after having gained additional experience elsewhere.

If you are the employer contemplating extending a counter offer, be sure to think through the long-term implications. If you really desire to retain the individual for the long term, how will a restructured role or compensation package effect the organization? Will it positively or negatively impact your succession planning process? Will it upset internal parity? Can you sincerely address the fundamental reasons that caused the person to resign in the first place? If not, then congratulate the individual and keep the lines of communication open. This way, if an opportunity presents itself at some point in the future for the person to be invited to come back, he or she may do just that.

Article updated September 30, 2019

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Our firm has just completed a two-year stint as a columnist for CIO.com (the online newspaper for information technology professionals). For our column, “The Hiring Manager,” we interviewed top Chief Information Officers from companies large and small: Starbucks and the U.S. Golf Association; new and old: Facebook and The Harvard Business School; fun and not fun: Harrah’s Casino and MD Anderson; flying high and digging out from a low: US Air and AIG. Collectively, these executives have hired thousands of managers. We asked them, “What have you learned about hiring?” “Can you teach someone how to make good hiring decisions?” “What can you share that would help a job seeker in today’s market?” And, “What was the worst interview you ever had?”

For those looking for the one piece of advice that may land you that coveted job, these may work:

• Every CIO commented that he or she is impressed by candidates who not only do research on the position and employer, but also show they care about the position. “I want someone who realizes that it is important to understand our company so that person can maximize the interview time for himself or herself and me,” said one CIO. Another instructed candidates, “Come prepared with good questions: ‘How do you measure success?’ ‘How do you like to manage?’ ‘What are your priorities?'”
• Prepare for questions you may be asked. For example, if you have had a number of job changes in the past several years, expect to be asked about it and have a concise, well thought out answer. If there are projects or departments you have managed, be prepared with numbers to back up your accomplishments without being boring. The goal is to strike a balance between offering substantive facts and not inundating your interviewer with number overload.
• Dress appropriately. While this seems like a no-brainer, many CIOs counseled that showing up overdressed can be as bad as dressing too casual. One CIO commented that his software company is a business casual environment, and if a candidate arrived in a suit, he would conclude that the candidate had not done appropriate research on the culture of the company. Bottom line: do not be afraid to call and ask what is appropriate.
• Read your audience. In addition to being prepared, read the body language of the interviewer and observe the details. Some interviewers like to make small talk as a way of getting to know you. Is the interviewer’s office filled with pictures and memorabilia? Most people put pictures on their walls as a statement about who they are, where they have been, what they do. Don’t be afraid to comment on them, especially if it allows you to establish a common ground. The second part of reading your audience is to let them direct the conversation. Some interviewers are comfortable spending 15 minutes discussing your mutual love of golf and their golf trophies, while others would see that as excessive. Good interviewees follow the lead of their interviewers.
• Use your interview time wisely. One of the biggest mistakes interviewees make is to take too long to explain accomplishments or answer questions. One CIO always asks candidates to give her some context to their resume. She says how candidates answer this question tells her how they budget their time, what is important to them and how they communicate. She advises candidates to ask, “Will you tell me if I’m giving you too much or too little detail?”
• Ask for feedback. Several executives commented that they are impressed by the candidate who, at the end of the interview, asks, “How do you assess my background in light of the requirements of the position?” If you do ask for feedback, do it in a confident, yet non-threatening manner.
• Thank you notes and follow up. While most executives conceded that a thank you note will not alone get someone a position, all agreed that it did not hurt. One executive recounted an instance where the candidate was not qualified for a position but wrote such a gracious thank you note that the CIO kept it, and when a different position arose, contacted the candidate for the position.
• If you do not get a position, ask for feedback on your interview from the HR department or the search firm. Interviewing is an art and a skill. Use each interview as a learning experience. The interview that did not go well can be a great lesson for the next interview.